Feedback for Generative Scheduling

Hello!

First off, I’d like to say that through the autodesk case management portal it is impossible to submit feedback (“Ideas and Suggestions”) for Flow Production Tracking or Flow Generative Scheduling, since ‘Release’ is a mandatory field with no dropdown options. Considering they’ve removed the public roadmap, it’s no surprise Autodesk isn’t aware that their only avenue for direct feedback isn’t functioning at all. So I’ve come here to post my notes instead.

I’ve tested out Flow Generative Scheduling, as we’ve developed an extremely similar solution for generating large schedules with specific constraints in-house. As we’d love for a highly maintained tool to exist that serves this purpose, I have some feedback regarding the first rollout:

1: Connecting to our site is not working. I’ve tried formatting the site URL and login username differently, but no matter what it says the username or site URL is invalid.
So, I tested the feature with the sample JSON file and editing some parameters.

2: Constraints sometimes are ignored, regardless of being feasible. I generated a schedule with a ‘Start no earlier than Aug 25’ constraint on a task, and the task was scheduled for Aug 07.

3: Resources are a confusing entity.

The example JSON file had 1 Unit of the ‘Animation’ resource. The generated schedule still scheduled several animation tasks on the same day(s), meaning I wouldn’t have enough resources to actually fulfill these tasks during their scheduled time in reality. (Unless I’m totally misunderstanding ‘Resources’ in this context of this tool altogether)

It would be beneficial if you could name individual ‘resource units’ within a resource class (ex. Animators within the ‘Animation’ class) and have the schedule ‘assign’ these resources to each task, to be able to manage individual schedules and overarching department/production schedules. They should also be able to have individual start and end dates on the project (as well as individual vacation dates, as can be obtained through Shotgrid/Flow bookings). Otherwise, unless your entire team is onboarded at once, and all of their tasks are already ready to start on that day, you’ll end up with downtime following your generated schedule (or you’d have to tediously set constraints for each task, and at that point, just schedule manually).

4: All task durations are in terms of days, and buffer periods between tasks are not a variable/constraint that can be added. Downstream tasks are set to start on the same day as the due date of its upstream dependency.

If a task takes the entire day to complete on its last scheduled day, and the dependent task/next task starts on the same day the initial task is completed- we have now lost a day of work on the dependent task’s schedule, and it has to be delayed. This will snowball for larger schedules and make department/productions end much later than they were scheduled for.
Task durations should provide the option to use bid/duration values in terms of hours, so tasks can be realistically scheduled during the same day or not, depending on what hour of the workday the task is scheduled to end. Of course, setting durations to hours vs days should be optional, so the user has the option to be this granular if they need to be.

Secondly, if a task has to go through a long review process or file prep/transfer time upon completion, there should be an optional buffer value before the downstream dependency can begin. Without this buffer value factoring this time into the task duration (bid), or ignoring this, will generate a misleading/inaccurate schedule.

5: The creation and editing of a OSF JSON file.

I don’t mind the JSON setup, but for most users in production, setting up a JSON file and learning the general rules and format of OSF is simply too complicated and cumbersome for a tool that should be used by Project Managers and Producers. An Excel import with an existing template or in-web user interface to make a schedule, would make it much more accessible, and be easily translatable into a usable JSON file for your software to generate a schedule with.

I’m happy autodesk is developing a product with these goals in mind, but in it’s current state, I can’t see it adopted in my studio. Would love to see if anyone has similar thoughts, or disagrees! I’d be happy to be corrected about some of these points as I’m not fully familiarized with the tool yet.

Thank you,

-Phil F

4 Likes

This should not be the case. If you can export an OSF JSON file of your schedule (with this constraint set) and send it in, someone can take a look.

  • Task durations can be specified in days, hours, minutes, or seconds.
  • Dependencies can specify an “offset”. An offset can be a fixed number of days (+/-) or can be a relative amount of the duration of the upstream activity as a percentage. For example a finish-to-start dependency with an offset of +2, would not start until 2 working days after the upstream dependency finishes, or a start-to-start dependency with an offset of 50% would not start until halfway through the upstream dependency.
  • You mention a task starting on the same day that an upstream dependency finishes. Can you provide an example of this? In particular, what the dependency type is, any offset, the duration of each of the tasks?
  • Regarding a task scheduled on the same day if possible. This is possible and is how it works. For example if you have a task with a duration of 1.5 days and a downstream task with a finish-to-start dependency and a duration of 1 hour, it can be scheduled on the same day that the upstream task finishes.

Resources are “resource requirements”. So, on a task stating that it requires a “resource” of “animator” with “units” of 1 means that this task will require an animator full-time for the specified duration. If for example, you routinely schedule animators to work on 2 shots at a time, you might specify a “units” of 0.5. Specifying a resource requirement for a task is not overall capacity (i.e. how many animators), it is what is needed to complete the task.

This version is focused on the very complex problem of determining when tasks can be scheduled to optimize the amount of resources needed. It is not providing functionality for the assignment of an individual to a particular task. Features for resource assignment are something we may consider for future versions.

Thank you very much for the clarification! I now understand the Resource value in this context, makes sense.
Good to know that the duration values can be in hours as well, and offsets can be added- I misunderstood this as the user is not able to see hour-by-hour schedules within the tool- ex. “ends at 2024-08-09 16:00” is not visible anywhere, as far as I can tell.

A few more notes after testing out the site connection setup:

The flow site connection doesn’t work with older sites that have “shotgunstudio” in their URL, only with sites that have the newer “shotgrid.autodesk.com” (or at least that’s what I’ve observed, could be another cause altogether).

As a space to play around with a schedule, it surprises me that you can’t edit values like duration, dependencies, resources, etc. within the tool itself. I had to restart my schedule scenario several times as I needed to edit something, notice something was missing, edit outside of the tool, and re-import again. Why not make all values editable, rather than just the resource shaping, priority, and constraint values?

The task duration only operates on the actual ‘duration’ field on Shotgrid. So, if I don’t have a pre-existing start/end date for these tasks, the bid values are ignored and the task appears as requiring 0 days in the schedule. This now requires the user to populate both the bid and duration fields with the same value, instead of just the bid. Not crazy annoying, but just a bit tedious.

Let’s say I have a maximum team size of 3 compositors, if I resource shape this department to stay at/under 3 units, it gives me a runtime error. [Pictured below.] The only way to avoid this error was to allow the schedule to go above 3 units, instead of the schedule just pushing the start date and spreading out the tasks. It also doesn’t allow me to adjust the ‘earliest start date’ for an entire department as opposed to individual tasks, which would be useful in cases where I knew we’d onboard a team on a set date. Is there any other way to go about this scenario?

Overall, I still think a resource assignment feature per task dealing with individual schedules would greatly benefit this tool, but it’s looking very promising as is and I’m excited to see where it goes.

the user is not able to see hour-by-hour schedules within the too

If you keep zooming in on the gantt, you should be able to go all the way down to seeing things hour by hour:

hourly_tasks

Why not make all values editable, rather than just the resource shaping, priority, and constraint values?

We may consider making more parts of the schedule editable within in Generative Scheduling in the future, but we’d like to understand specific use cases, e.g. what specifically are people wanting to edit and why? Do people actually want / need to be able to go all the way down to editing the durations and dependencies on specific Tasks or should we consider doing something else to make adjustments that might be more scalable? (I guess what I’m thinking is that if you had a large production schedule, you probably wouldn’t want to individually modify 10k+ Tasks while exploring scenarios, or maybe you would?)

The task duration only operates on the actual ‘duration’ field on Shotgrid.

I do think we will probably explore making this more configurable in the future, so that you could specify which field this value is pulled from (but no promises. :slight_smile: )

btw @PhilFranjo can you use the menu at the top to ‘export as OSF’ the example from your last reply where you got the ‘bad index’ error and include the actual schedule here so we can have a look? (or if it has sensitive info in it, DM me and I’ll give you my email.) That shouldn’t be happening at all so I’d like us to have a closer look at what’s causing that error.

Also, there should not be any difference between Flow Production Tracking sites that use the newer URL style. If the FPTR / GS integration isn’t working for you with a specific FPTR site, the best thing to do would be to submit a support ticket with the specific site and what error you’re encountering so we can have a look. FYI It only works with cloud hosted sites and there is also a known issue that prevents the integration from working with FPTR sites that have an allow list in place (although we are currently in the process of fixing this.)

Thank you for the zoom tip! It would still be nice to have the full datetime start/end date for tasks in their info panes, though- just to avoid having to zoom in every time for this info.

You’re right- I definitely wouldn’t want to modify many individual tasks, but having the ability to adjust singular tasks for whatever reason, to tweak the schedule or fix a mistake, would save some re-importing time- either way, I’ll have to adjust the tasks somehow whether it be through FPT or JSON. Scalable adjustments would also be nice (eg. changing the offset value for a specific task type across the board).

Attached below is the example scenario I was using that produced the error.

z3QDhjnhah4PKJTqJ2GcUD-UY5EYoRRV-5-14-0.osf.zip (1.2 KB)

For the site connection problem, our site does have an IP Whitelist, so I’ll wait for that patch.

Super appreciate you guys taking the time to discuss with me :slight_smile:

Hi @PhilFranjo - just a heads up, you should be able to use the FPTR integration for Generative Scheduling with an FPTR site that is using an IP allow list. This was addressed in a release for Flow Production Tracking yesterday.

We’ve also just done a release for Generative Scheduling this morning which should address the ‘survival score: bad index’ error that you were encountering.

Awesome! Appreciate it!